Transcript
- Thanks for joining us everybody.
Welcome to the behind the scan webinar titled Look,
before You Leap POCUS for central venous catheterization
with our guest speaker, Dr. Cameron Baston.
My name is Chris Pennell
and I'll be hosting today's webinar.
Before we begin, just let me go over some important
information about this webinar.
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provided for general educational purposes
and as a supplement to professional experience, education
and training, and should not be considered the exclusive
source for this type of information at all times.
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to exercise independent clinical judgment in
each particular situation.
Dufu Sonos assumes no responsibility
or liability for any misuse of this webinar.
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and a session at the end of the presentation.
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and we'll get to those now.
This webinar will be recorded
and archived for future reference on our webinars page
and on the Sono Site Institute.
To get started, let me introduce our guest speaker.
Dr. Cameron Bain is a clinician advisor for
for Penn Health Tech
and an associate professor
of clinical medicine in the Department
of Medicine at the University
of Pennsylvania's Perelman School of Medicine.
He serves as an associate program director for the pulmonary
and critical care medicine fellowship,
and as a director of clinician performed ultrasound
for the Department of Medicine.
I'm mechanical engineer epidemiologist critical care
physician and medical educator.
He spends about two thirds of his time caring
for critically ill patients
and the remainder working on education innovation
and health technology.
And with that, I'll get our presentation started.
- Hi everybody. Very excited to be here.
My name's Cameron Bastin.
I'm a pulmonary and critical care doc out of Philadelphia,
and I'm here to talk about how to use an ultrasound to look
and perform a central venous catheterization.
The title of this talk is Look Before You Leap
POCUS for CDC.
So there's five key objectives I'm
hoping to get through in this talk.
I want to make sure everybody understands the evidence-based
and regulatory guidelines supporting the use of POCUS
for CBCs.
I want to make sure you know how to identify the key
ultrasound and anatomic landmarks for catheterization
of the internal jugular subclavian e femoral veins.
I want to talk about different techniques
for needle insertion, how
to guide your needle into the vein, along with how
to confirm the wire once the wire is placed
for a modified selden injury technique insertion.
I want to talk about what you can do after the procedure.
So that's checking for pneumothorax,
having bubble studies done,
and I want to explore some of the emerging practices
and future directions of ultrasound
guided central line placement.
If I wanted to simplify this a little bit,
I changed those five objectives to why are we using focus,
what are we looking for?
How do we access the VE vessel, what comes after access
and what's coming next?
So here we go. Why? Why do we use pocus?
And, and the question might be, why
don't we just use landmarks?
And I'm sure that there are people
who are going to be watching this, who are going to say
that they've done so many subclavian
or femoral lines using anatomic landmarks
and palpation of a pulse that
that they feel safe and comfortable doing it.
And I'm not trying to talk them into changing all the time,
but I will offer that when we've tried teaching people
who use anatomic landmarks to start using ultrasound,
that complications decreased a lot.
We're talking about more than 50% decrease in complications,
a more than 80% decrease in arterial puncture alone
and more than a 40% reduction in failed first attempt.
And that's amongst experienced providers.
And part of the reason for that is that if you look at
where the artery and the vein are,
and this case you're looking at the right carotid artery
and left carotid artery and the where the jugular sits,
it doesn't always sit in the place that it's supposed
to according to netter's drawings.
All right? And that variability means
that sometimes you're perfectly aligned with your needle,
where it should be based on surface landmarks,
but you're not where the vein actually is.
And that might even be more true in the subclavian vein,
which is the place where I think I still see the most
landmark and palpation guided procedures where you can see
that where the artery and vein are vary a lot
and sometimes that vein just isn't superficial to the artery
and that can get you into a lot of trouble.
So this is why the guidance has changed and,
and man, the changes are not new anymore.
More than 25 years ago, the A HRQ was the first group
that said, Hey, real time ultrasound
for central lines is an important
evidence-based patient safety practice.
It was in their top 11 practices,
and this was shortly thereafter followed in the UK
by the nice TA 49,
which they basically said 2D ultrasound guidance is the
preferred method for elective IJ access.
And also had a little bit in there for the first time about
how important it is to train people
to competence in ultrasound guidance.
Skipping forward a decade, the American Society
of Echocardiography, the European Society
of Intensive Care Medicine did consensus documents talking
about how important using ultrasound for cannulation is
and talking about how to train and accredit people in it.
And this has continued with the Society
of Hospitalist Medicine explicitly calling out a minimum
number of simulated passes
before saying somebody's ready to start doing this on humans
and the American Society of Anesthesiology,
talking about real-time ultrasound access.
And then again in 2025,
this update from the A SE from the American Society
of Echo Echocardiography, talking about the three core roles
for ultrasound in central vein access.
So my conclusions from this, my takeaways are the area
of landmark guided central lines is basically over.
And at this point, if you're learning how
to do a central line from scratch, you need to be learning
how to do it with real time ultrasound guidance.
So let's move on to the next part, which is
what are we looking for when we say we're doing
real-time ultrasound guidance?
And the first thing you need to do is think about
how am I going to set myself up for success?
And that means choosing the right transducer.
And this can be done with other transducers,
but I'll tell you that I think in great sim greatly
simplistic terms that a linear transducer is the best
for anything that's less than six centimeters deep.
And even in the era of the American habitus,
that a, that a six centimeter deep
IJ is surprising to me.
Now, when it comes to the femoral vein,
sometimes we are talking about a greater depth
and that a micro convex
or a carboline transducer is necessary in
order to be able to see your needle.
But for most patients, especially for thoracic
and cervical lines, the linear
transducer is the way forward.
And then most modern machines have a venous access preset
or a venous preset that allows you to visualize the vein
and more importantly, has a high enough frame rate
that you're not going to miss your needle,
that there's not going to be lag in what you're seeing.
Sometimes you'll see people do this with a nerve preset
because it gives you the best image of the anatomy around,
and that's fine, but recognize that
that will have a slightly lower frame rate
and you'll see a slight delay.
And when it comes to thinking about positioning,
it's really important.
And the reason for that is we want to think about how
to optimize the vessels that we're targeting.
What you're seeing in this video, an internal jugular vein,
a carotid, the overlying SCM, and the skin above that.
And you can see that this IJ is starting to collapse.
Is this a reasonable target? Yes.
Could we get into this with a needle safely? Yes.
But if we put our patient into trendelenberg, then
that same vein can become a much easier target to visualize.
It's not just whether
or not the patient's head down enough,
applying enough gravitational pressure to bring
that blood into the vessel
and fill the vessel that you're trying to target though, one
of the things that I see taught a lot is this idea
that you want the patient to rotate their chin.
And this is helpful for an internal jugular catheterization
because it exposes the anatomy
that you're trying to get access to it.
But if you over rotate, if you rotate too much, then
that anterior surface is now looking through the IGA
and carotid and they will lie just on top of each other.
As you can see here with this jugular vein
lying just on top of the car.
Carotid again, is this something that you can do safely?
Yes, but you have a choice.
You don't need to have this risk.
And we'll talk about why this in particular is a risk if
you're using an out of plane
or transverse approach when you're trying
to access this vessel with a needle
in the same patient's neck, if you just rotate the neck back
and instead look from some somewhere
that's more anterior on the neck closer to the thyroid,
you can see that the IJ moves lateral to the carotid.
And as you move back and forth, you can see
that IJ going on top of the carotid
and then back lateral to it giving you a safer target.
It's also really important to know how
to differentiate veins from arteries.
When we think about this, the first thing I think about is,
do I know my anatomy?
I know that the carotid should be deeper
and more medial than the ij.
And so I can think, Hey, am I looking in the right spot?
But as you might remember from an earlier slide,
that relationship,
that anatomic relationship while on the majority
of patients is not universal.
And so then I like to think about compressibility,
and it's not that arteries aren't compressible,
especially when we think about some
of our patients in severe shock.
But this idea of compressing and slowly releasing
and seeing that vein totally collapse,
lets us know which is the vein, which is the artery.
Perhaps even more sophisticated, is the use
of spectral doppler and making sure
what you're seeing is a venous waveform,
as you can see here, as opposed to an arterial waveform.
Or if you want, you can use colored doppler.
And it's important to remember when using colored doppler
that you have to understand some of those basic principles.
This idea that the color of the blood
and colored doppler does not tell you whether the blood is
ated or not, just tells you whether
that blood is moving towards or away from the transducer.
And you can see the color key over here on the left
and the convention, which I remember using the Simpsons Bart
blue means moving away from the transducer,
red means moving away, moving towards the transducer.
The other thing you want to make sure you're doing
before putting a needle or a wire into these
vessels is checking for thrombi.
And what you can see here is a non occlusive thrombi
thrombus, sorry, near the valve.
And that non occlusive thrombus is floating around in a
utter emergency lifesaving situation.
It's not that you can't pass a needle on a catheter here,
but if you can choose an alternative
vessel, that's really important.
This example in contrast shows a complete occlusive
thrombin, and this should not be accessed
because it won't be successful.
The risk with a non occlusive thrombus is
that the thrombus could be dislodged
and cause life-threatening emergencies later.
With a occlusive thrombus like this, there is no way
to pass the wire into the vessel.
All right, so let's move into choosing a location to do this
and we'll talk about the the main places we go,
the internal jugular vein, which is
probably the most commonly accessed site in the modern era.
The advantage to this is that it's compressible,
it's easily accessible.
There doesn't tend to be a ton
of adipose chi tissue blocking your path.
Philly's really into really impressive beards
and sometimes that can be a problem.
And there's more than one patient who I've had
to bring clippers to before doing this procedure.
But the idea is that if there were a complication involving
a vessel here, you can easily apply
pressure and control bleeding.
The disadvantages to the IJ is that
it's got a slightly higher infectious risk than the
subclavian, which we'll learn about.
And the reason that I see
that a lot in my patients in the intensive care unit is
because when a patient's in the supine position at 30
degrees, as we try to make sure they are
to minimize their risk of ventilator associated pneumonia,
saliva, and other secretions can sometimes
pool and drip down the neck.
The other problem is that this is valuable real estate.
This is something that that is going to limit a patient's
mobility of turning their head back and forth.
This is a place where you're going to want to be looking
for other applications.
What you're seeing in the video right now is an out
of plane approach showing a needle,
my needle accessing this vessel, breaking
through the anterior wall
and then stopping right in the center
of the vessel right there before going
through the posterior wall towards the crowded.
This is what that vessel looks like
in the longitudinal view.
In this case, you can actually see that smoke
or sec, spontaneous echo contrast.
Again, that spontaneous echo contrast does not mean
that this vessel has a thrombus in it just means
that there's a low flow state, still a reasonable target
for a for a procedure.
So this is the IJ I had mentioned,
that the subclavian vein has a lower risk of infection.
It's also almost always the most comfortable place
to have an indwelling catheter.
It doesn't interfere with moving the neck around.
It doesn't interfere with moving the arms around.
And this is what you're seeing.
You're often seeing, and this is in the transverse view,
you can see that vein as it dives under the clavicle,
which is on the left hand side of the screen,
this bright white line with a dark shadow behind it.
You can see the vein here as it goes,
you can see a valve in it and then it dives under.
I tend to do this procedure with a combination
of the transverse and longitudinal view.
This is the longitudinal view showing
that axillary vein joining together
and becoming that subclavian vein.
The advantages of the longitudinal view is
that you can see your needle the whole time,
and more importantly, you can start to look for how deep
below the vessel that lung sliding is.
If you look back up at this transverse view,
you can see the bright white line and dark shadow of a rib.
And then right next to it you can see the shimmering
and glistening of the plural line right here.
Knowing that depth allows me
to understand a little bit about how high the risk
of pneumo phx is going to be for this specific patient
for this specific procedure.
The other disadvantage to the subclavian vein
and subclavian artery is that because of the clavicle,
you can't apply direct compression to it.
So if there is a bleeding event, you're in trouble.
And that's why there is a contraindication
of doing this in a severely coagulopathic patient.
The next site that's often talked about is the femoral vein,
and here you're seeing the femoral vein
and artery with compression showing
that vein completely compressing.
And then, and the advantage of this is
that there's lots of real estate.
And what I mean by that is while you want to go
high up into the common femoral vein, usually have a couple
of centimeters to do it, and it keeps the torso free.
That means that this is the access point that I look
for when someone is actively getting CPR
or in a crash scenario where I need
to get central venous access.
Also, unless you're using your needle in some sort
of wildly inappropriate way,
it it should be almost impossible
to cause a pneumothorax with a femoral vein.
The disadvantage to this is that it's been shown
to have a higher rate of infection.
It also has a slightly higher rate
of DVT if this is left in place for a long time.
I tend to think of this anecdotally
as this is my short term emergency access,
and if I can I move the catheter to a thoracic
or cervical location afterwards?
All right, so I've offered some of the kind
of qualitative reasons why you might
want choose one site over another.
But the good news is that in the New England Journal
of Medicine, the three site study group actually
did this study.
They looked at a very large number of patients,
almost 3000 patients who got catheters placed in each
of these sites.
And they looked at what the rates were of mechanical,
infectious and clots
and mechanical implications, infections and clots.
And what you're seeing is that really
all three are reasonable.
The difference is between them are small.
That said the infectious complications was objectively
smaller and the subclavian vein compared to the other two
and and that mechanical complications were a little bit
higher in the subclavian as compared to the other two,
they did secondary pairwise analyses of these.
So you can just say, Hey, if I have to choose between an IJ
or e femoral, things look about the same in all honesty.
But if I'm choosing between the subclavian
or the femoral versus subclavian versus the ij,
you can see why you might decide that one
of these is better than another.
So how do I put this together into a conclusion?
I summarize this by saying, Hey, I'm going to look at the ij.
I'm going to say, Hey, this is where a place
where I've got great opportunity to control bleeding.
So my coagulopathic thrombocytopenic
patient, I'm going to think about this.
And in the era of ultrasound guidance pneumothorax is
relatively uncommon.
It's got a lower infection rate versus the femoral.
And if I need to think about things like a PA catheter,
it's a lot easier to float that through the right ij.
The disadvantages that I'm looking about is if I'm doing
this with a novice user,
carotid arterial injury is real and a problem.
It's uncomfortable for patients when they're trying
to move their neck and maintenance
of dressing is is a problem.
Also, if the patient has a tracheostomy,
I can get into real trouble with my landscape.
Also, the the, the truly the patient who's hypovolemic,
who's hemo hemorrhagic shock
or distributor shock, that IJ can be very prone to collapse
and that can make it tricky to get in safely.
With the subclavian vein, I'm thinking a lot about
how easy this is to maintain my dressing,
how comfortable it's for the patient,
how clear my external landmarks are,
and the fact that the subclavian vein being lower is a
little bit less collapsible than the ij.
It's also got that lowest infection rate.
And if I'm going from the left,
then I can totally float a PA catheter.
The disadvantages are the risk of pneumothorax is higher,
although again, not reaching statistically significant
levels in the studies that actually looked at this
and that the subclavian artery is very difficult to compress
because of the clavicle, the axillary vein is compressed.
And the reason this is important is
because when I do an ultrasound guided subclavian vein axis,
my needle is actually hitting
before the axillary vein goes under the clavicle.
So it's technically an axillary vein cannulation,
and that place is somewhere that I can compress the femoral.
Again, no interference with CPR, no risk of pneumothorax,
but the highest and infection rate difficult PA cath float,
and the risk of the femoral artery being
damaged or of A DVT.
This, this IDSA guideline.
This joint guideline in 2022 says
that the subclavian vein should be our first
and most desirable target
for central venous catheterization.
So my conclusions for this, when you're talking about how
choosing your vein and how to get there is make sure you
know the road D plan and falling.
Know the anatomy that's nearby, know
what it looks like on ultrasound.
Know how you're going to get from the skin
to the vein that you're targeting.
All right, moving on. Let's talk a little bit about
how we are to access the vessel.
And this is the part that I think is most interesting.
And the reason I say that is
because there was an initial period
where we were using ultrasound to make a mental map of
what was below us and then putting the probe down
and doing our same pass.
And we've moved beyond that
and now we're doing real time guidance.
And the first, and probably the most common way
to do real-time guidance is the out of plane approach.
And that's where the transducer is held
perpendicular to the needle.
And you can see this schematic that I that I made
where you start
by entering the skin on the proximal side towards you from
where the probe is.
And then once you can visualize
that needle tip just under the skin,
then you move the transducer away, you move it away
until you can't see the needle anymore,
then you stop moving the transducer,
then you advance the needle just until the tip appears.
Then you move the probe away until you can't see it
and you repeat this process until the needle is starting
to enter the vessel.
We'll see that right now. So you can see the probe every
time the needle tip appears, the probe is moved away
until the needle enters into the vessel
because you're seeing the needle tip and
because the tip has a bevel to it, I like
to then advance a little bit more until I'm sure
that my needle tip is in the center of the vessel.
Otherwise you can get into trouble with the wire trying
to be advanced through a needle where half
of the bevel is in the vessel
and half of it's in the VE vessel wall.
And then when that thick wire tries to get through,
it gets caught up in the vessel wall,
can cause damage to the vessel.
So continue to follow that tip.
Continue the steps three
and four until you're well inside the vessel so
that you can be sure that your wire's going to
go where you want it to go.
When you're doing this, there's a couple things you can do
to make your the process as easy as possible.
One of them is recognizing
that physics can help or hurt you here.
If your linear transducer is pointing perpendicular
to the needle, you get the brightest, most visible image.
If on the other hand you're at a 45 degree angle, some
of those sound waves bounce off
and you see less, it becomes a less bright issue image.
And if you're really far off,
you can lose the image altogether.
This can be mitigated a little bit
by having etched needles which have little grooves cut into
them to make them easier
to see from different angles of ultrasound.
The brighter on the ultrasound screen regardless
of the angle of insulation.
But in the end, you just want to make sure that you know
where your tip is.
And this is so important. You can see that on the screen.
All you're going to see is a single bright dot,
that's the echo from the needle.
But you don't know
without moving your probe whether that is the tip
of the needle or the body of the needle.
And so this is why that process,
that iterative step-by-step process of moving the probe away
until the needle disappears is so important
because it lets you know that you are at the tip
of the needle as opposed to looking in the middle.
And this is why the out of clean approach
has some dangers to it.
Those dangers really are, hey, am I looking at the tip
or am I looking at the body of the needle?
If I'm looking at the body of the needle thinking I'm
looking at the tip, then the tip of my needle is much deeper
and can potentially damage deeper structures.
The next option is the in plain approach.
And you're seeing that right here where the, the
linear transducer is now aligned with the needle.
And so that means that you can visualize the entirety
of the needle and the vein at the same time.
This allows you to ensure that you're seeing your needle tip
as opposed to kind of having to guess and check and guess
and check like you do for the out of plane approach.
The advantage here is
that you're not going to have your tip be deeper
than you think that it is.
That disadvantage here is what you're seeing at the end
of this clip, which is that the hand skill
of keeping both the needle
and the vessel aligned is more difficult
than the out of plane approach.
If you're trying to optimize your image here, you can see
that this, while this needle is bright,
by angling your transducer slightly
and having the sound waves go perpendicular to the body
of the needle, even in this out of plane approach,
you can get even brighter images.
So when you're trying to optimize your image in the
longitudinal view, you need to make sure you
know your imaging plane.
And what I'm showing you here is a clip
where somebody was trying to follow that longitudinal view
of the IJ but gets a little bit lost
and you can see that they're off axis
and they no longer are in the center of the vessel.
So I like to encourage my, my learners to pre-scan
before they put the needle in, follow
that vessel know which angle it's going at,
know which way you're going to be moving your transducer,
and then to look back
and forth between their hands in the screen
because I want make sure they can see whether
or not their needle and their probe are aligned.
You'd be surprised at how tricky that can be.
This is what that'll look like in a, in the subclavian vein
where you can see a vein
with a valve in it at the beginning of this clip.
And you can see that artery coming into view, the main
danger of the longitudinal view since you can easily see
whether or not your needle tip
is going through the back wall.
The danger is whether
or not your unseen needle is hitting a lateral structure.
And this clip shows you just how close
that subclavian artery can be to that subclavian vein.
So how do we choose this orientation?
How do we decide whether this is something
where we're going to go in the short axis or the long axis?
And the answer is there's advantages
to each and the short axis.
You get to see the whole field,
but it can be tricky to find the tip
and you have the risk of going through the back wall,
the long axis, you see the whole needle.
It's tricky to see both the
needle and the target at the same time.
You have risk of lateral structures.
You would think that one of these would prove to be better.
But after multiple attempts
to randomize experienced operators
to using either this long axis
or the short axis view, the conclusion really is
that it's just the one that's most comfortable for you.
In all honesty, the way I do this is I go back
and forth between the longitudinal view
and the short axis view.
And the reason I do that is
because that allows me to know where I am, to know
where the structures are.
And then when I come close to truly accessing the vessel,
the longitudinal view lets me see that that needle tip
and make sure I'm not going through the back wall.
One of the options that I see interventional radiology
colleagues using is an oblique approach.
And that's where you actually see the vessel in the
short axis.
But you're seeing your needle and the long axis.
And you can see the first description of this was
that I was able to find was in ultrasound
and emergency medicine.
And the idea behind this is you're gaining the
advantages of both.
You're getting by looking at the vessel in the out of plane
or transverse approach, you get to see the anatomy
that's surrounding it by looking at the needle
and the longitudinal view.
You get to see both the tip and the body at the same time.
And the, the idea is this should allow you
to get the strengths of both while mini
minimizing the weaknesses.
The danger to this of course, is that instead
of targeting a tube,
you are now targeting a circle as you enter the vessel.
And that means that if you're talking about a small vessel,
you may think of your needle as entering pretty
and having a short distance to travel
before getting to the far wall.
But you can see how this looks in a, in a real patient
and the way that that needle approach is different
between the oblique and the transverse
or in plain approach
once you've accessed the vessel.
The next thing that I make sure that my learners know how
to do is to visualize the wire.
And the reason for doing that is, again,
in the transverse view, they may think they're in the vessel
but actually be looking at the body
of the needle while the tip is deeper
and into a deeper structure.
And especially in those examples we saw where they're
jugulars overlying the carotid, that can mean
that the needle tip is in the carotid.
So I like to watch the wire and you can watch the wire
and you can see the J hook on the wire
as it enters the vessel
or insert the wire, take the needle out
and then look with the ultrasound.
This is in the transverse or out a plane view.
And what you're watching is you're watching as
that in internal jugular vein,
the the user is fanning down
and following that wire
and watching as it stays inside the venous system
and does not go through the back wall,
which is the real danger here in the longitudinal view.
You can watch it and you can see the wire in this case,
navigating past a valve.
So my conclusions
for this area is no matter which angle you take,
the important thing is that you know where your needle is,
especially where your needle tip is
and where your veins are.
And so that means that whether you're accessing the internal
jugular vein, the subclavian or axillary vein
or the femoral vein, you just have to know
what you're seeing on the screen
and how to identify your needle when you're doing it.
Then we can talk about what do you do after your procedure?
And I'm not going into detail about
how you can use the modified sel deger technique
to transition from needle to wire,
from wire to catheter.
Instead, I really want to talk about what can we do in order
to confirm that that catheter's in the right right place.
The first thing I want to talk about is assessing
for pneumothorax.
And this is again, lung sliding
and lung ultrasound is my favorite thing
'cause I'm a pulmonologist.
But it's important to remember
that ruling out pneumothorax can be done either
with B lines,
you're seeing B lines here or with lung sliding.
You're also seeing lung sliding In this clip, I would like
to point out that this needs to be checked pre
and post procedure.
And the reason that is because if you don't check
before the procedure and the patient had a pleurodesis
or they had other reasons for them to have an absence
of lung sliding, then when you check afterwards,
you're not going to be able to rule out pneumothorax.
Now if they have B lines, you're in good shape
because that's going to be the case pre and post.
But if they had B lines before and then you check afterwards
and there's no lung sliding
and there's a lines that's concerning
if they don't have B lines
and they just have a lines, as you can see in this one
with lungs sliding, you just want to make sure
that you feel very confident that what you're seeing before
and after is that sliding
of the visceral pleura against the parietal pleura causing
that shimmering and glistening artifact.
In contrast, you can see here on that same patient
what it looks like when there is not lung sliding.
And very important in this is being able
to identify the anchoring anatomy of the ribs
with the dark shadow behind it, ensuring
that this white line that's not moving, that's not sliding,
that's not glistening, but has pixels
that are not going black, white, gray, black, white, gray.
You need to confirm that that is anatomically the pleura.
The other thing you can look
for is a hematoma.
This clip was caught in an emergency situation in a
profoundly coagulopathic patient
where you could actually see the hematoma forming in real
time above the IJ as they were navigating it.
Being able to assess this can help you
with understanding whether you want to transfuse the patient
who is thrombocytopenic
or who's coagulopathic in order to control bleeding.
And I've, I have some friends in who are proceduralists
who really think that the best way to ensure
that your wire has navigated any turns on the way,
especially from that left internal jugular vein navigating
across midline.
And then down into the SVC, the best way to ensure that is
to advance your wire
until you can visualize it in the right atrium.
And there's several articles, but this is one
that I really like the images for that show you how to do
that, either seeing it in the IVC if it's a femoral
catheterization or seeing it in the right atrium,
it's a neck or subclavian catheterization.
The challenge with this of course, is that accessing
that part of the body requires you to go under the drape
to go into the non sterilized area in
order to do these scans.
Logistically, the way that we do this is either you have
somebody else in the room
or if you have the ability to pre-scan
to lay your cardiac transducer in exactly the spot you want to
be, and then to grab that transducer through the drape
and apply it to the subclavian space.
So the subcostal space, you can visualize
that wire while maintaining your sterility.
And then one of the ones I like to do is, since I,
once I have my catheter in place, is I like to check
and see whether
or not if I pass agitated saline, this is not
filling a syringe with air.
This is merely a fast flush of saline through that catheter.
Can I visualize that in the right atrium
within three heartbeats?
And that lets me know, hey,
I am definitely in the venous space
because I can see that agitated saline entering
the heart very quickly.
So my conclusions with this area,
but this portion of the talk is it is
really, really important to make sure that the complications
of central line placement pneumothorax, bleeding
malpositioning of the catheter have not
happened during your procedure.
And the big advantage you have is that you're at the bedside
with a diagnostic imaging modality with ultrasound.
And so by checking for lung sliding for beelines, checking
for the wire, you can rule out several
of the complications right then and there.
And if you see a hematoma,
you can monitor it appropriately to the clinical scenario.
This saves your patients' time.
I don't know how many times I've been waiting and waiting
and waiting for a chest x-ray to arrive
before I can write that nursing order, okay
to use IJ catheter.
Whereas with this, I can feel more confident,
especially in an emergency situation.
All right, so talking a little bit about what comes next,
where are the places that we can go with point
of care ultrasound and assessment of central line placement?
So one of the questions that might come out
of this post-procedural assessment is,
do we even need chest x-ray anymore?
Now, just as a reminder,
a post-procedural chest x-ray is standard of care
for all neck and shoulder central venous catheters.
You don't need to do one for e femoral catheterization,
but you do need to for an IJ or subclavian vein
because it confirms that the tip's in the right position
and it rules out pneumothorax and it's required
by many institutional protocols, including several
of the institutions that I work at.
But there's practical limitations
to this waiting for that test.
X-ray delays the catheter use
and supine ICU chest x-rays
for those critically ill patients have poor sensitivity
for pneumothorax, especially for small pneumothorax.
Lung ultrasound is just known to be more sensitive.
And the fact of the matter is with all the variability
of anatomy that occurs in our patients,
you can't truly confirm venous versus arterial patient
with just an x-ray.
Although if it does follow the right path,
you can say pretty clearly, all right, this,
this feels like it's in the SVC
or this feels like it's in this, the point
of care ultrasound kind of lets us do this.
The bubble test confirms that it's in the venous system.
If you can see beelines or lung sliding,
you effectively ruled out pneumothorax
and it's faster 'cause you're there.
So you can have, you have your sutra line ready
to use without the delay of waiting.
The limitations to this is that while I brushed
by these skills as if they were simple,
they take real training, there are false positives
for an absence of lung sliding that need to be known.
And if you're moving your hand when you're assessing
for lung sliding, you'll make it look like there's lung
sliding when there's not.
Also the bubble study wall lets me know
that's in the venous system, does not confirm
for sure whether I'm in the proximal distal SVC
or if I'm right at the junction.
So it's not universally endorsed in
guidelines from societies.
And that means that adoption for a pocus confirmation of
an ultrasound play, a central venous catheter is still
institution by institution, know where you are
and know what level of competence and competence you have.
Some other things I've been seeing is that things
that would be effectively impossible with anatomic based
placement can be done with an ultrasound.
And so I've done this several times,
but I I, I brought up a,
a case report from the COVID pandemic
of when the prone patient can't be supinated
or needs central access quickly rather than waiting
for the process for them to supinate be stabilized
and then placing the central catheter to actually pursue
using ultrasound, having the patient in a swimming position
with their neck up.
And instead of going through the SEM visualizing the ma, the
the mandible
and then looking posteriorly, seeing things backwards
and then recognizing what direction your needle's going to go.
And as long as you're doing this with knowledge
of the existing anatomy
and the ability to confidently track your needle,
track your needle, this can be safe.
I'll offer that the dilation step, especially
for a bigger stiffer catheter such as a dialysis catheter,
can be tricky.
Getting the stiffer dilator to navigate the curve of that
prone IJ requires some finesse,
but accessing the vessel can be done safely
and even those catheters can be placed
similarly in a prone patient.
The popliteal vein can be used,
and again, this is not something that you would think
of doing without ultrasound, but if you can see
that popliteal vein, you can measure it.
And as long as it's big enough for the catheter
that you're hoping to place, this is a way that you can
gain access in a patient who doesn't have other options,
whether it's an overlying cellulitis in their femoral area,
a lack of access in their neck or shoulders
or other thrombo vessels.
This is another place that can, that can be evaluated.
And then there's this idea that what I've seen is that
as people become more afraid of causing a pneumothorax, as
that becomes closer and closer to a never, never event,
I see my trainees starting to go higher and higher
and higher on the neck
and an attempt to avoid their needle getting
anywhere near the pleura.
And while there's some safety to that, the problem is that
that means they're going through the belly
of the sternal colleto mastering,
which is even more uncomfortable for, for patients.
This this article describes, Hey,
while this would not be a safe thing
to do in a purely anatomically guided procedure,
by visualizing with ultrasound, a lower IJ can allow you
to avoid beard, can allow you to avoid overlying ej,
allow you can avoid overlying carotid
and allow you to access the internal jugular vein just
above the clavicle.
I'll offer that this procedure does carry
to me this increased risk of pneumothorax.
'cause you're objectively closer.
And if I have a patient with bolus emphysema
where their lung is rising up
above their clavicle, this becomes scary.
But with an ultrasound, I can see that blood.
I know whether or not that's true
and more to me, this is the one where
that oblique approach really starts to come in handy
because the needle is now no longer advancing towards the
lung, but it allows you to get
your catheter lower on the neck,
which makes it more comfortable for the patient no longer
through the body of the SEM end, easier
to keep the site clean, which is essential as we try
to get our CLABSI rates down in this post COVID era.
And then while it's not central access, one of the reasons
that I do so many fewer crash or dirty lines during cprs
because of how good we've gotten with interior with
intraosseous access, I will offer though
that I have had failure of io
and it's incredibly concerning when it happens
because you don't get the same feedback that you do when
that becomes a little dislodged
as you would if a catheter came out of a vein.
And the nice thing about this is while the bone blocks sound
waves, the modern ultrasound machines are strong enough
that they can actually visualize a flush pushed through
through the bony cortex.
And you're seeing this in this ICM paper from just a few
years ago, the ability to validate
that the iOS in place is incredibly helpful under those
circumstances where you, you're just not sure.
The last thing I want to talk about is competency.
And this is something that man, you could talk about
for an hour.
We could spend time talking about the decreasing number
of opportunities for repetitions
that the internal medicine residencies
and thus the, that internal medicine subspecialty fellows
are presenting to fellowship with.
We could talk about the fact that the combination of iOS
and ultrasound guided peripheral IPS means that there are
so many fewer central lines being placed,
which is a good thing for our patients,
but decreases the procedural exper
and experience that our trainees have.
In the end, the thing that I just want to highlight is that
multiple expert bodies, E-S-I-C-M, the American side
of echocardiography cited hospitalist medicine are
converging on the same skillset for how to do this.
And it's this ability to, to follow that needle tip,
to identify the anatomy to differentiate
vein from artery and that there's a minimum number.
You know, I, as an educator, I don't believe that numbers
are enough for competence,
but I do believe it's that it's hard to say
that if somebody hasn't done at least five simulated first
pass cancellations that that they are ready
to do this on a real person.
And so that's, and that's where SHM landed
and this group led by Neil
and Sony et all for their point
of care ultrasound task force.
And it's also where the A SE landed, just this idea that
before doing this procedure on a human,
you should do this procedure on plastic
and not just do I know how it feels to push a needle through
to draw back, to pass a wire,
but more do I know how to follow my needle and know whether
or not I'm seeing my needle tip
or if I'm seeing the bot bo the body of the needle,
do I know how to see that needle in a longitudinal view
and follow that into the vessel without losing it
or the vessel warm?
So my conclusions for this, what's happening now,
what's happening next is that we can think about new sites,
new places, the ultrasound opens up, areas of the body
that might not have been accessible
and that we can think about validating our IO placement
and more we can think about, hey, are the skill sets
that we need for this following a needle tip,
those are the same skill sets we need
for ultrasound guided peripheral ib
or ultrasound guided arterial access.
How do we make sure our training
and our competencies align such that we're teaching people
what they need for all the parts of their job?
So bringing us back to the initial objectives,
we very quickly went through those, the evidence base
and the regulatory guidelines
that tell us why we should be using ultrasound
for every central line
and why specifically there's a benefit to patients.
We talked about how in order to do this well though you need
to be able to identify your anatomy.
And so we talked about what the anatomy looks like in the
ij, the subclavian and the femoral vein.
And we talked about how to guide your needle, whether
that's in plane or longitudinal or if that's out of plane
or transverse with the, hopefully the conclusion that
there's no right or wrong there,
but that there are different risks.
And knowing which the, what the risks are as you go into it,
allow you to mitigate those risks as you do your procedure.
We also talked about how to confirm your wire in the
vessel and track your wire.
And then we talked about how to do a post-procedural
assessment and like checking for a pneumothorax, looking
for bubbles in the right atrium
and knowing that you're in the venous system.
And we a little bit about some of the new places
and future directions that ultrasound guided
central line placement can go.
So my conclusion is that, that I really want you
to walk away with our pocus is the standard
for central line placement at this point.
And the reason is it saves time and decreases complications.
There are multiple techniques to access multiple vessels
and there are advantages and disadvantages
to every technique and to every vessel.
But the idea is that in the future we're going to continue
to increase our target options
and increase our confidence immediately post procedure as
to whether or not the procedure was a success.
I got information incited data from a horrifyingly long list
of articles about this.
This is something that's well studied and well established,
but hopefully this was helpful.
I want to thank you so much for signing on
for paying attention and I want to make a space for anybody
who wants you to ask questions.
Thanks so much.
- Alright, Dr. Basson, thank you so much for
that excellent presentation.
We'll go ahead and take some times
for questions from the q and a box.
Now, just so everybody remembers,
we're currently broadcasting on multiple platforms,
so if you're on our main zoom broadcast, the q
and a box should be available at the bottom
or the side of your screen.
And for our YouTube
and LinkedIn streams, you can put your questions in the chat
box and we'll get to those.
It looks like we do have a question pop up.
Do you have any tricks for navigating short necks?
- Yeah, great question.
So this comes up a fair fairly frequently in the modern era.
And one of the things that, that I notice when I have a,
a bit of a short neck is that we have
to take a steeper approach
because we have less landscape in order to do kind
of a longer more shallow approach down to the vein.
And so what that says to me is I am more likely to go
through the posterior wall than I would be if I'm taking
a, a more shallow approach.
And that to me gives me even more reason
to be switching back and forth between that long
and short axis and
to be thinking more about am I angling my ultrasound such
that I am really seeing the tip of my needle?
So, so when I think I have a short neck, I try
to avoid the intuitive response
of just go higher on the neck.
And instead I think about, all right, I can map
with my ultrasound exactly how much real estate I have.
I can figure out what angle I need to go at in order
to achieve my necessary depth while also making sure
that I have visualization of the needle
tip the whole way through.
- Awesome. And we have somebody else asking,
do you prefer short or long axis for subclavian
and axillary CVC?
- This is, this is a great question. This is actually
something that, that I think there's some debate about.
You know, there, there's a great article that
that talks specifically about whether which one is better
for this line, specifically
for the axillary subclavian vein.
And, and the original textbooks encouraged a longitudinal
view, a long access view.
And the reason for that was you can actually visualize the
vessel and the clavicle itself
because once the axial vein dives under the clavicle,
it's almost impossible to see it.
But if you can visualize the clavicle,
you can see your needle and say,
I am accessing it exactly at the
point where I can no longer see it.
Thus it is really a subclavian vein cannula
instead of an axillary vein cannula.
I'm less obsessed with whether
or not I'm accessing it while it would be anatomically
axillary or subclavian.
So I go back
and forth though my technique, which is,
is also in at least one other article I've read,
is I start in the transverse view, map the vessel,
ensure I can see it in the longitudinal view, go back
to the transverse use so that I'm doing my needle insertion
exactly over the vein.
I can see that I'm not pointed at the artery,
that I'm not pointed at the pleura.
I can see the depth of the pleura
and then I switch to the longitudinal view as I get close
to the top of the vessel so I can see my needle going in so
that, because I know the depth,
I can use the transverse view for a period of time.
And then when I get to the point where going
where I'm even close to the vein
and going through the posterior wall would be possible,
I switch to that longitudinal view
and ensure I can see my needle and the bevel.
And I find that that back
and forth gives me the most confidence
and that's what I try to teach my trainees too.
- Awesome. Next question is
for thicker neck and chests.
Oops, sorry. Yeah, for thicker neck and sorry. Yeah,
- I, I got this so I can see what, see what is right.
- Okay, - So this is a question about, hey,
if you're dealing with somebody who is super obese
and the depth of their vessel is greater than the length
of your needle that comes in your kit,
which is usually a six centimeter
needle, then what do you do?
And there's a couple things here.
Number one, if you're talking about being at a depth
that you can't use the long needle in most
of these kits which are made for femoral access, then yes,
you can use a, a longer,
you can, you can ask for a longer needle.
One of in the question was the,
was the explicit question about an 18 gauge spinal needle.
And the challenge with that,
with using any other needle other than the one that comes
to the kit is you have
to make sure the wire can pass through it.
First. I have been in the situation where out
of desperation we've reached for
a new wire when a wire was kinked or a, a new needle
and found that the wire in the kit
or the new wire we reach for would not pass a needle
that was already in the vessel.
And the frustration of being like, all right, we have
to give up this access, get a new wire, new kit
and re-access this vessel,
vessel in a critical situation is incredibly stressful.
So you can use any needle, I will offer
that a spinal needle explicitly, especially if it's
for an lp, may not be a cutting needle, number one,
which means, gosh, are you going to be pushing through tissue
and, and, and having some challenges there.
And if it's a calcified vessel, you're going to have a lot
of trouble getting through the vessel wall.
Number two, if you're using a a spinal needle, that tells me
that this vessel is so deep that it's going to be challenging
for you to see it with a linear transducer.
And now we're talking about additional risk
of the decreased resolution you're going to get with
that curve of linear probe.
And number three, that needle's not etched.
So this needle, which is already harder to see
'cause of the depth you're using it at,
is not going to have the advantages
of the etched central access needle.
So my, my take on this is yes, there are situations very,
very large legs, incredibly thick necks where we get close
to the depth that the long needle in our kits
are, are not deep enough.
But, but I haven't had a patient where I couldn't find
between the, the six sites that we're talking about
where I couldn't find a site where I had a less than four
centimeter, four or five centimeter deep, deep vessel
that I could access with the needles in the kit.
And the deeper it gets, the more I value
that etched needle and the ability to see it.
'cause it's okay, I'm going to go into the next question
that's, that's typed up in the chat.
- Yeah, absolutely. - So the next question is,
is asking if I have a site preference
for temporary hemodialysis catheters
and I I do a lot of temporary HD lines
and the short answer is yes, but it's not necessarily
because of the ultrasound part of it.
The, my reason for really preferring
that right internal jugular vein is
because it's a straight shot
and the fewer turns you have for
that slightly thicker catheter,
the fewer opportunities you have for it to kink,
for it to have slower flow.
There's a question that we have, there's an open debate with
between our critical care group
and our renal group about whether our second choice should
be femoral or the left ij
because again, the femoral veins have a straight shot
and the left IJ has, has these turns.
And actually there's a study that looked at this
looking at the complication rates
and the success rates of femoral versus left neck.
And what they found was in the obese patient,
the left neck was superior
and in the non-obese patient,
the femoral was superior for your second choice.
If the right IJ is not an option,
I am doing very few subclavian hemodialysis catheters.
And the reason for this is because of an extrapolation
of some long-term dialysis access studies that suggest that
a larger catheter in the subclavian vein runs the risk
of stenosis and,
and that that stenosis then limits options for,
for surgical dialysis access in the future.
Full transparency, I'm not sure
for short-term temporary dialysis whether
that matters the way it does for long-term axis, but,
but it makes me make the subclavian veins my lowest
least prefer preferred target of the six.
Again, I've done it, I I still will do it,
but I I I'm only going to do a subclavian axis if both IGAs
and both fems are not reasonable
targets for some other reason.
Hopefully that answers the question,
but please let me know if there was a
another thing you were hoping I would get at
- All.
Right. It looks like we have a comment from LinkedIn.
It says the receive a protocol is a great assessment tool
for both pre and post-assessment as well
as intraprocedural monitoring of the needle,
G wire and catheter.
Do you have any comments or things to say about that?
- No, I love, I love that you're bringing this up.
There's, receive is is a great way to say, Hey,
have I evaluated before, during, and after this procedure?
It's, it's a situation where it's not, it's not everywhere.
And, and my concern
and the thing that I think that everybody should hold onto
is, this is a perfect example where the checklist style of
of medicine is really pays off.
And so whether that's receive a checklist
or if it's a different protocol that you've developed
inside your institution, I want to make sure that you're
using a checklist that people can check off.
And the reason for that is because everyone has had a time
where they forgot a step in something
that they've done a hundred times, whether that's forgetting
to remove the wire, whether that's forgetting
to do your standardized chlorhexidine scrubs
to the degree you want, whether that's forgetting
to put the patient in tr ellenberg, whatever it might be,
checklist, make this better.
And when we're talking about the ability of ultrasound
to prevent complications later on, to look
for the thrombus beforehand to make sure it's compressible
to look whether the wire's able to pass to know
what depth you're going to all these sort of things,
the more you can rely on a checklist
to make sure you're not forgetting something,
the better off you and your patients are going to be
so huge fan of any checklist thing,
not endorsing any one protocol over any another right now,
because I don't, to my knowledge, don't know
that any one checklist has been demonstrated
to be better than the other
ones. Yeah, go ahead.
- Yeah, it looks like we have another question here.
Do you try and avoid subclavian
and coagulopathic cirrhotics?
These patients often have high CLABSI
risks in our institution.
- Yeah. And that's not just your institution.
These patients with cirrhosis are clearly immunocompromised.
And Yeah. So the, the avoiding
of the subclavian site is a strong
but relative contraindication in patients with coagulopathy.
The thing that makes me feel a little bit better about it is
that I'm really accessing the axillary vein
instead of that subclavian vein.
So this'll, if I have a patient who's a little bit
coagulopathic, I'll move slightly farther out.
And the reason for that is because then I'm accessing
a compressible vessel.
And so if something goes wrong
and I have to pull the needle out,
or God forbid there's a,
there's a arterial puncture at out there,
you can apply pressure and hold pressure.
Whereas once you're under the clavicle,
it's almost impossible.
So that's where ultrasound to me is
so much gives us this such a big advantage over the landmark
guided subclavian, the landmark guided subclavian,
you're appropriately accessing well under the clavicle.
That's where the, the vein
and the artery are most consistently placed,
and that's what you're passing and trying to get to.
But man, it's easy to inadvertently access the artery
to inadvertently scratch the vein
and then not get full access when you're doing this blind.
Whereas with the ultrasound, I can be like,
I am watching myself go in.
So, so ultrasound makes me slightly more comfortable.
That said, you know, there was a recent trial about
give empirically giving platelets
to thrombo cytokine thrombocytopenia
patients who are getting central lines.
And you can interpret that the outcomes of
that trial in a couple different ways.
But in the end it was, this isn't a bad idea.
And the ones who got transfusions
before the procedure were less likely to get transfusions
after the procedure for oozing for what that's worth.
But, but this is one of those situations where
I normally don't transfuse before temporary access, which
before central access, but if I have a coagulopathic patient
for whom I'd really like to get a subclavian vein accessed,
I am more likely to give them FFP
or platelets depending on what they need.
But I, I, I hope that my answer had enough hedging
and hand waving and to let you know, it's a tough situation.
Those patients are vulnerable both to infection
and to bleeding and figuring out the right thing
for 'em is not something that I feel like there's
a definitive answer to.
But in this era where I think your institution,
like every other institution is trying
to make CLABSIs a almost never event,
it's important to take into account the fact
that the IDSA really does believe
that this subclavian is our, should be our first choice.
Yeah. But, but man, do I I I am mu I'm pretty scared
of a true subclavian bleed in those patients.
- Right. I think we have time for one more question.
How do I rescue a wire that won't pass?
- Yeah, this is great.
So there's another one of the ones where
in landmark
or blind techniques, you can sometimes feel the wire
and feel what you're running up against.
But with ultrasound sometimes you can see it.
And so with the wire in place, wherever I'm at,
I can actually look
and so if, if I'm not able to pass at the level
of my needle tip, I'll take a longitudinal view
or if a train's doing it, I'm supervising,
I'll move the ultrasound
and look at the longitudinal view of their needle
and actually see if the wire isn't passing
because their needle's in the vessel wall anteriorly
or through the posterior wall,
and that's where they're getting their
resistance, I can actually see that.
And under ultrasound guidance,
I can have them pull their needle back
until they're in the center of the vessel
and then pass their wire and see that wire coming out.
Initially, if I'm having trouble passing farther along,
I can actually look in other sites.
And so just to give an example, anybody who's
had this happen has been incredibly frustrated when you do a
left sided IJ and it goes across
and then ends up in the patient's right arm
and you're like, I can't get to the depth.
I think my wire should be too,
but I'm at 12, 14 centimeters, I don't know where I am.
I can actually look for the wire in the subclavian vein on
their right and I can see whether the,
the wire has done something silly like in one
of my patients I once saw going down the left IJ
and up the right or down the left
IJ and into the right subclavian.
And by, by eliminating some of these common sites,
I can get more confidence about whether my wire's in the
right spot and if I'm set up in advance
or have an extra scanner in the room, I can do that thing
where I look for the wire in the right atrium or the IVC
and that really can help me gain the confidence
to say I'm in the right place.
Hopefully that answers the question that you're asking.
- Awesome. All right, well it looks like we've covered all
of our questions for today.
A big thank you to Dr.
Bain for taking the time to put together this incredible
in-depth excellent presentation
and for hanging around to answer questions for us.
We really appreciate you sharing your expertise.
Quick reminder that you can watch previous webinars
and sign up for upcoming webinars on sonos site.com/behind
the scan webinar.
And those webinars can also be found on the Sono Site
Institute as well.
Thank you so much for joining us today, everybody,
and thank you so much again to, for Dr.
Bain for joining us and we'll see you at the next one.
- Thank you everybody.
Enhance your clinical expertise with our focused webinar on ultrasound-guided central venous access. Discover the latest evidence and guidelines supporting ultrasound use for central line placement. Gain practical skills in identifying vascular landmarks and mastering needle guidance techniques with real-time imaging. Learn to confidently perform post-procedure assessments for patient safety. Plus, explore trends that are transforming the field, including advanced patient positioning strategies and reduction of chest x-rays.
What You'll Learn
- Identify key anatomical ultrasound landmarks for internal jugular, subclavian, and femoral vein catheterization.
- Demonstrate proficiency in various needle insertion techniques, along with wire confirmation and tracking.
- Recognize essential post-procedure assessments such as checking for pneumothorax and bubbles.
- Explore emerging practices and future directions of US-guided central line placement.
Cameron Baston, MD, MSCE, is a clinician advisor for Penn Health-Tech and an Assistant Professor of clinical medicine in the Department of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania's Perelman School of Medicine. He serves as associate program director for the Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine fellowship, and as director of clinician-performed ultrasound for the Department of Medicine. He has an interest in helping create low-cost medical devices in the resource-limited Critical Care setting and works with several organizations on POCUS and Critical Care education. A mechanical engineer, epidemiologist, Critical Care physician, and medical educator, he spends about 2/3 of his time caring for critically ill patients, and the remainder working on education innovation and health technology.
This educational webinar is intended for healthcare professionals and not for patients or consumers. The material is provided for general educational purposes, as a reference and a supplement to professional experience, education and training, and should not be considered the exclusive source for this type of information. This educational webinar is not intended to recommend any device for a particular indication or to provide indications for use for any device. At all times, it is the professional responsibility of the practitioner to exercise independent clinical judgment in each particular situation. Fujifilm assumes no responsibility or liability for any misuse of the information imparted in this webinar. This educational webinar does not supplement, replace, or supersede device labeling, including instructions for use, which accompanies any FUJIFILM Sonosite product.